Team Victory Rankings

55 thoughts on “Team Victory Rankings”

1. I know that I am alone in this but in my mind the wins ranking is what counts … especially if it looks at .1+ races.
   Could be interesting to segment one day races versus stage races but might make the story a bit long.
   BEX seem to have beefed up their team a bit so might be able to be more competitive in the big one day races next year.

   • The wins count for plenty… but the rankings are supposed to show quality, eg the balance of a Tour de France podium vs say ten wins in France, normally the Tour podium generates way more publicity.

     Be interesting to see if Matthews can get in a groove. Groenewegen can win more. Sobrero’s got plenty of promise for BEX.

     • Does prize money 💰 get tallied anywhere?

2. Interesting that IPT had as many wins as they did. Given their lack of points this year you’d have thought they’d have less wins. Shows importance of GC maybe. Fugs and Froome really let them down there.

   • They got some good wins but it’s the lack of all the other placings that cost them. All teams have iceberg style results, the wins on top are visible but there’s a lot of other 2nd-20th places “under the water” that might not be seen as much, here Israel struggled with this part.

     We’ll look at the ProTeam ranks soon as there’s such a contrast in this. Israel get demoted but if they’re patient and clever they can thrive in this tier. With two stage wins last summer they’ve got a decent chance of a call for a wildcard in July. Presumably Sylvan Adams has already called Paris to say “I didn’t mean it when I said I’d set up a rival Tour”… although ASO surely knew this.

   • It also depends on where you win (WT vs. .2 is a huge difference in points), and (as The Inner Ring already said) all the places behind the winner that count.

3. IR makes the point that Groupama-FDJ depend on a small number of key riders (Démare, Kung, Gaudu & Pinot). Most of the above are logically past, at or approaching their peak while all the new recruits (eight from the Conti) will probably take a few years to start winning. I may be wrong but Grégoire and Martinez (19), and Pithie, Paleni, Germani and Penhoët (20) don’t really appear 2023 winners. Let’s see.

   • Their leaders have some life left in them yet. The new signings are very promising but as ever it’s the cream of the U23 crop who turn pro, they’re all good and progressing to the next thing is a big step up.

4. Surprised that no-one so far has asked who was the Ineos rider Caleb Ewan had a bet with? That’s what I’m most curious about after reading this blog!

   • We would’ve, could’ve, should’ve found out! I have to say, though, I was equally intrigued that Ewan rates himself so highly. I’m not sure where, exactly, he thought those 20 wins were going to come from.

     • I honestly beleive if he gets his sprint right he will beat anyone. But the guy just misses out far too much. So many days he should be challenging for the win and he’s down in tenth. I feel there are other guys not getting as many wins but far more higher finishes. A few years ago he was going to early and missed a lot. Now he waits but i think cannot judge it right and misses out.

       • This year Ewan developed a habit of sitting up if he didn’t think he could win.

         Those 10th places could often have been points paying 2nd or 3rd places.

   • It was Luke Rowe who had the bet with Caleb Ewan – the other side of the bet was dinner for Luke + Mrs at a nice restaurant.

     • Thanks for assuaging my curiosity. Hope the Rowes enjoy their meal!

5. Maybe while AG2R are waiting for Alaphillippe they could pick up Cavendish — I hear he’s looking for a ride. If they have the funding I’m sure he’s got a few wins left in the tank.

   A lot seems to made of UAE giving Pogacar better support in the Tour, and compared to JV carefully providing close escort to Vingegaard in the rough and cobbled stages the difference was quite noticeable. But it seems to me Pogacar’s Achilles heel is great heat — in temperate weather he’s at least as good a climber as Vingegaard (maybe better in the cold) and better than Quintana, Bardet, and Yates (excellent climbers though they be), and it’s not at all clear how much a more supportive team could have helped on the Granon this year.

   • The team was needed on the Galibier both during and right after it.

     • That may well be true, but more than likely it wouldn’t have been enough in that heat.

   • UAE/Pogacar’s problems on stage 11 began on stage 10, when instead of giving up the yellow jersey and all the podium duties, Pogacar could not restrain himself and kept the jersey by 11 seconds.

   • Pog’s Achilles‘ heel is that he can’t help responding to any Roglic move.

     As odd as it sounds, he might have an imposter complex when it comes to who should be the first Slovenian to win a TDF. Deep down he might feel that person should have been Roglic. He fears a Roglic “come back” (whatever that might entail in his mind) and over reacted as a result.

6. Cofidis Hit and Win assessment 😀

   • They just want that Tour de France stage win, it hasn’t happened since 2008. Ideally by the French champion as they’ve never won this despite the team having been on the road since the 90s.

7. The Jumbo Visma/Sky comparison is interesting. When Sky won with Wiggins in 2012 they also won a lot of stages between him, Froome, Cavendish and Boassan-Hagen, and obviously finished 1-2 on GC. But it’s almost like they found that too stressful and thereafter completely rejected that approach and went all in with Froome and his mountain train. It may be that as 2012 was quite heavy on TT’s it gave them enough wiggle room to play a bit, and the reduction in TT’s thereafter meant they had to concentrate on smothering the mountain stages to be sure of winning.
   It’s also interesting that Alaphilippe might potentially move when his contract expires. I thought him and Evenepoel would overlap too much. It’s risky for QS though. They’ve been steadily off loading big names for years and have been knocked off their perch in both the overall win list and the classics.

8. Probably impossible to do with accuracy since team budgets are not published by all of ’em but I’d like to see a chart with the wins divided into the team budget. My guess is Q/S would come out on top? Would Israel be at the bottom?

9. Near the bottom, probably – but I’m not sure their budget was three times bigger than that of Astana.

   Anyway, the chart I’d like to see – even if just for fun – would show which teams got more and which teams less wins than the combined wisdom of experts – whether real or just typical seat-of-the-pants armchair forecasters like me – would have given them before the season.

   (The Inner Ring pretty much gives us such a chart in verbal form, though.)

10. It will be interesting to see how theses charts compare in 3 years time after the next WT cycle. Wegelius at EF says they’re going for points from Jan 1 and they’re probably not the only team.

    • Which means, I guess, that EF will be riding more non-WT races than they have in the past. I have to admit that seeing Bettiol or Powless race Tro-Bro Léon (for example) would be entertaining!

      • It’ll be better for “minor races” but I can see the Giro and Vuelta suffer as teams will decide to go for points at one day races instead.

        • Vaughters has now confirmed that, even though it’s “absurd”, EF will be doing more races, but “We’re not going to chase around races in Belgium and France.” As for next year’s Tour, “That being said, the route’s a nice gift from ASO. So, thank you.” (very little TT-ing in other words)

          • Interesting idea that it’s absurd for a cycling team to do bike races.

          • I believe that what Vaughters considered absurd was the way some teams chose to race in order to haul in a maximum amount of points: their objective was to have three riders in top ten, because it brought them more points than a win and two also rans would have done (and certainly more than a 2nd or 3rd and two also rans, I might add).

            PS I’m not altogether convinced that this kind of calculating but dull – and absurd – racing was such a common occurrence even in the second half of the season. The teams that resorted to that kind of play were the ones that did not have (in the finale) a rider who could have realistically won the race, even with the help of his team mates.

11. How is the Ineos rider that made a bet with Ewan?

    • It’s not a big secret, can explain more but perhaps first we can ask who readers think it might be? 😉

      • Tao Geoghegan-Hart?

      • I’d have a bet on one of 3 Aussie riders at Ineos – Porte, Plapp or Wurf.

      • Keep going…

        • G Thomas

        • Luke Rowe?

          • Correct, (as pointed out above by Sustainer too)

        • Adam Yates

12. Who….

13. Nice end of school report vibe for the teams.

    Interested to see how you think Alpecin and Arkea fit in to this.

    • We’ll look at the ProTeam rankings soon as there’s a lot going on in this tier, with teams capable of winning in the World Tour and teams who struggle to get a of any kind.

      But it’s interesting to see where the two promotion candidates fit:
      – Alpecin-Fenix, they got 33 wins and 34 second places, they really look like a World Tour team especially as they’ve become a lot less dependent on Mathieu van der Poel who is their star rider but he had relatively poor year by his standards, only 5 wins although with the Ronde.
      – Arkéa-Samsic got 12 wins and 22 second places, they made the World Tour but just, they’re not so much of a compelling promotion so it’ll be interesting to see what they do

14. Desperation at B & B Hotels. The riders are calling in their union and Pineau has nothing to say for sure on new sponsorship when there’s 10 days to go on the UCI clock.
    They have new BMC bikes in hand. The Paris connection seems still to be in play, but no reason why it’s not solid by now.
    https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/cyclisme/b-b-hotels-ktm/cyclisme-avenir-de-b-b-hotels-je-les-soutiens-mais-je-suis-inquiet-y-avait-il-un-plan-b-17fe9782-6111-11ed-9269-b91b4bfaa036

    • Read the same story, the problem is the Paris connection isn’t meant to be putting any money in, just the identity. Meanwhile they’ve burned the bridge with Brittany which was also funding the team. Orluis Aular was supposed to be joining the team but today he’s renewed with Caja Rural, presumably out of safety.

      None of the riders seem to know any more and we should find out by next week what is, or I fear, isn’t happening.

      One aspect that’s not got much traction in the English-speaking cycling media is Pineau’s partner in this is Didier Quillot, who was involved in French football and Mediapro. To cut a long story short Mediapro bought the rights to show French football but it imploded having promised hundreds of millions to French football. Quillot had lots of explaining to do.

      • I wondered a while ago where all the B&B rumors were coming from and it seems Didier Quillot is the likely source.
        Interesting that Mediapro wanted first to get Italian football TV rights but after “due diligence” by the Italians (checking out if Mediapro had money) said, no thanks and arrivederci!
        Where to now for Cav and his sprint team?

        • What teams still have budget, room on the roster and a decent lead out train? Total, maybe? Israel?

          • Israel is the rumour mill pick. Not Total as despite the Specialized connection and the French team having a rich backer, Sagan and Cavendish would struggle together.

        • To Israel – Premier Tech, of course! Cavendish would be great to have in the team as a “trophy rider” (i.e. much like Froome), but he would also practically guarantee a wild card for the team and a stage win for him in July is not the very distinct possibility it always was for Froome post-injury.

          PS Israel has just let Nicki Sørensen and two other DSs go and hired two new ones. Normal business, I suppose, but I cannot help thinking that there was a certain need to find a fall guy (or two or three) so that everyone can think that now we make a new start…

          • I challenge the idea that Cav to IPT means a guaranteed Wild Card invite to Le Tour. He’s not French. I’m not sure the French, or anyone outside the UK really, wants to see Merckx’s record broken by him. Not because he’s Cav, but because he’s a sprinter. I get the sense he’s not that popular with teammates either. Plus Adams has pissed off ASO. If B&B survives but doesn’t sign Cav they get the 3rd spot and then I wouldn’t be surprised at Uno X or Q36.5 ahead of IPT.

          • The more I think about this B&B Hotels story the more ludicrous (and tragic for their current riders) it becomes. A large company is expected to sponsor a team, not guaranteed a place at the tour, with a large amount to hire a 38 year old (next year) non-French sprinter, without a sprint team, to maybe win one stage (at a Tour with minimal truely flat stages) against the best sprinters (not to mention van Aert), just to beat a record. On top of that there’s a good chance that Cav will struggle to make it to Paris at all.

          • Cavendish or not, it’s been notable that firms linked to the team like Carrefour and Amazon have gone public to say “no, it’s not for us”. Indeed why would large multinationals want to back a second tier team? A lot of this hasn’t made sense from the start.

            I think Cavendish would be a big help to get a wildcard. With Total and Lotto-Dstny, There are only two spots left. Israel won two stages and so have a good chance. B&B need something to persuade ASO to pick them rather than Uno-X.

            If B&B don’t get the invite then B&B hotels won’t stay around. So the team were probably in the last chance saloon (see February’s http://inrng.com/2022/02/bb-team-invites-trouble/) already.

15. Apologies, which team is Bora’s feeder team? A conti team in Germany I guess?

    • Team Auto Eder. The U-19 / junior team had Cian Uijtdebroeks last year, world champ Emil Herzog this year.

      • Thanks!

16. After reading about Thomas’s troubles at Ineos, I realized he’s in the same position as Roglic. He wants to do the Giro, but management will probably want him as backup at the Tour if Bernal has problems.

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