The Tour resumes with the only solo time trial of the race this year.
Gamelles et Solaison: it shouldn’t be news to anyone that Jonas Vingegaard is out of the Tour. It was evident when he climbed into the ambulance, and then the way the rest of the stage was ridden with the pace in the final of Tadej Pogačar set for Isaac del Toro which allowed Remco Evenepoel to take along and then take the stage. If there was a gift it was probably Pogačar trying to help Del Toro which in turn helped Evenepoel.
The third week looks like it’ll see more of this. UAE will work to protect Del Toro’s podium spot – TT result pending – and RedBull have an interest in cementing Evenepoel’s second place overall too so two big squads looking to shut the others.
Jonas Vingegaard might not have troubled Pogačar but as we saw on the Tourmalet and Haag he was causing all sorts of trouble for Evenepoel. And his team were riding hard, see how they were leading the chase on Sunday’s stage. Now they’ll focus on stage wins instead and consequently some stages should be more open to the breakaways.
The Route: uphill from almost the first pedal stroke and it’s like this all the way for 11km. It’s never steep, a steady 4% almost all the way where it’s easy to feel good at the start but sustaining the pace to top of the climb is harder, and a test of back muscles in the TT position as much as legs and lungs.
The descent looks like it goes down like it went up on the profile. However, first it’s more a passage across some rolling road doesn’t come right away. Later it’s steeper and twistier as goes down a small canyon. It’s been freshly surfaced for the Tour and so looks even faster but the workers haven’t done the best job with the big roller, it’s got little bumps all over the place which are probably invisible to anyone driving in a car but hit one on a bike at 70km/h just as you try to line up or brake for a bend… it just requires more thought, it’s nothing wild. We’re talking micro undulations on fresh tarmac rather than potholes and most riders should have already picked this up on their recon rides.
It’s twisty around the streets of Thonon including two very brief sections of surprisingly gnarly cobbles – the Nokereberg is smoother, it’ll pay to ease the bike over the stones – before a slight kick up the line.
The Contenders: Remco Evenepoel (Soudal-Quickstep) is the obvious as this is his speciality, he’s in form, he’s climbing well and the amount of climbing gives him an advantage on the pure specialists.
Tadej Pogačar (UAE) has a real shot at victory here as the climb is terrain he can push on and descent and the final in the streets of Thonon suit someone able to brake and accelerate several times. How motivated is he for the stage win? Secure in yellow with five minutes’ lead he can afford to manage his efforts in the third week.
It’s hard to see others get a look in. Filippo Ganna and Josh Tarling (Netcompany-Ineos) would prefer flatter stages even if they can cope with a slope and they’ve been able to rest for this day, likewise Edoardo Affini (Visma-LAB) while Daan Hoole (Decathlon-CMA CGM) has been working more in recent days.
A reminder that Juan Ayuso (Lidl-Trek) is an excellent time trial rider, he’s beaten Evenepoel before so even if his climbing is coming up short he could do well here but a win is a big ask.
 |
Evenepoel |
 |
Pogačar |
 |
– |
Weather: 27°C and a 10km/h wind from the NE which means a light tailwind uphill, faster but also hotter.
TV: First rider Kamil Gradek is off at 1.00pm and Tadej Pogačar starts at 5.15pm CEST and should finish roughly half an hour later.
I appreciate the concise summary that Pog’s helping del Toro helped Evenepoel. Is the assumption then that Pog was actually tired from dragging Evenepoel and del Toro?
This ITT will be interesting!
Pogi left it a bit too late to cover Evenepoel when it was clear that Del Toro wouldn’t make it. A bit too much hesitation and maybe a bit of lacking motivation, and then the catch wasn’t possible any more.
Pogi sat down early for someone who wants to be first to the line. So either too tired or could not be bothered. And the latter can be because he didn’t need the win/wanted to work on his goodwill coefficient/had agreed with Remco to give him the stage. We won’t know until the book comes out after he retires.
@AK There was that little chat between Pog and Remco on the climb that I think someone mentioned (and is probably right) could have gone something like this from Pog: “I’ll set up del Toro and you to fight for the stage win sprint but if you try to attack me before that, I’ll take the stage off you”.
There is no way of knowing but I was thinking that Pogacar shepherded del Toro up the climb because del Toro was involved in the crash.
Strange to say that Vingegaard leaving the race might actually have made things much easier for Remco because Visma aren’t in the least concerned with pulling. The podium spots (and the white jersey) are the only interest points left in the race but who will exactly be two and three probably won’t be decided maybe even until Paris as places 2-6 are still very much up for grabs – especially with 2x Alpe d’HUez finishes to come.
Which makes the whole doping control kerfuffle doubly annoying to me. I am not one who thinks that the controllers should have an unaccountable carte blanche to wake riders up at 2am or 5am – especially in the middle of a multi-stage race where recovery, so we are told repeatedly, is EVERYTHING. The whole thing stinks to me and I would like to know who signed it off and on what “special” basis it occurred (as the rules seem to require some dispensation over and above the regular due to the time it happened). If Jones and Tadej were targeted simply for being one and two in the race that is, to me, outrageous and potentially race tampering (which, strangely enough, they are supposed to be there to stop).
No one could have known Jonas would go on to crash later that day but I hope there are some very re faces somewhere at the ITA.
Will riders 2-6 in this GC as it stands be getting 2am knocks at the door? How about Jannik Sinner, Lionel Messi or Keely Hogkinson? Is it only cyclists who are subject to special (and in my view wholly unjustifiable) measures? (Yes, I’m quite mad about this.)
1. Find a large pinch of salt.
2. Take it with this:
Sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed to Cycling Weekly that at least two other teams have been tested at 5am during the Tour, one in the first week and one in the second week.
This is not the flex you think it is. It only makes it worse. NO ONE should be being tested at that hour and I don’t care if the ITA put out the possibility beforehand. Recall, you are supposed to need reasoning over and above the regular to test anyone between 11pm and 6am. WHAT IS THAT REASONING?
Clearly a judge thought there was reason:
https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Un-juge-a-autorise-les-controles-antidopage-nocturnes-de-tadej-pogacar-et-jonas-vingegaard/1705928
Right. And in going before judges to authorise actions the petitioners must supply reasons. What were they?
PS and why is ANY of this secret? Drug taking exists primarily to provide public confidence in sporting competition. It should all be out in the open as a general principle.
I mean drug controls not drug taking – obviously! A case of overenthusiastic writing and not checking!
There’s more emerging on this matter, including that it’s happened more times at this Tour already, so a suggestion is to observe the facts coming out. There’s been some conspiracy and uninformed clickbait about this already online.
The reasoning need not be made public, to do so could suggest the source reason for this, ie a tip-off, athlete passport data etc. If anyone is abusing the system, better not to alert them but to catch them and deter others.
Also remember anti-doping is first for athlete health. Reassuring the public comes next.
I suppose your question is rhetorical. I don’t know if there’s a reason, let alone a good one but, even if there was, it couldn’t be divulged.
ITA’s job is to try to keep sport clean and if occasional testing in the night helps then for me it’s justified. We just don’t – and won’t – know more
You may be happy with that. I am not. Many commenters on this, including riders still in the race and ex-riders who are now pundits, have raised the issue of human rights in relation to all this. Some may find that mere rhetoric but I regard it as a serious point. I also regard as serious that cyclists specifically are being targeted here – and perhaps in distinction to other professional sportspeople. Are tennis players, footballers or track and field athletes subjected to middle of the night testing too? Perhaps no one even knows. But are the ITA then a rogue force who can roam around testing at will so that a pro athlete exists basically at their whim on pain of their career being taken away if they refuse to comply? I find that simply unacceptable and the witch hunt mentality of anti-doping this presents completely unsavoury. And, what’s more, as was raied the other day, what’s the point of athlete doping passports in that case? This is all becoming ridiculous.
@DJW. +1.
I think this is a bit of a storm in a team cup… we’ll all forget about it in a few weeks as it’s really not that big a deal, and Jonas himself was pretty calm about the whole matter so I’m happy to take his lead.
Yeah it’s not ideal and maybe could’ve been handled better, but we have many people coming on even these comments sections throwing unfounded doping accusations around all the time – it’s the first question every cycling fan gets asked by non-cycling fans… it is the cloud that hangs over our sport and always will. So to me, a few early morning doping controls is really not that big of a deal? Even if it’s just for show.
The blunt truth is Pog is gonna win this race whether he’s woken up once at 5 or not. Based on all recent history Jonas was also likely to come second. They weren’t exactly interrupting the finest of margins given recent results… and even if JV was disturbed and it did impact his standings (I really don’t think we can attribute the accident to this) he already has three second places so I don’t think one third is going to change the perception of him as an all time great… (plus don’t forget his team were on the front and an attack was imminent so I dont really buy the detrimental effects anyway!)
Yes maybe it would be nice to have transparency on the reasonings and inner working but seriously… we don’t follow the ITA 365days a year and ask for every document and inner detail usually (and we should acknowledge there are likely good arguments why some kind of secretive cloak is helpful to their investigations) so why are we getting so uppity about it now?
This is going to blow over in a day or two and we’ll all forget about it, it just doesn’t matter that much. If it were the night before the Lemond/Fignon TT and it were only one rider then it’s a different story, but it’s not.
And talk of human rights for one nights disturbed sleep when the actual wars going on around the world is a tiny bit hysterical…
What is the reasoning?
[Gesticulates at the entire history of cycling]
That.
As they said on The Cycling Podcast, you have to accept the history of the sport. They have to be subject to this sort of testing, the sanctity of the event relies on it.
So basically screw the currents riders. They are hostages to the fact Lance Armstrong, Festina et. al. ever existed.
Marvelous.
Such thinking is why none of us can have nice things.
In response to Bubble Wrap, the current riders are currently smashing to bits the times from the Armstrong and Festina era.
I’m really confused why you’re taking this so to heart BubbleWrap?
It’s great to have a new voice in these comments so happy to hear you out, but why has this one got your goat to this extent? There’s a thousand other worse things in cycling?
Beyond your reasons why this is so bad, which we’ve heard, understand and sympathise with, do you usually get this bugged about controversies in cycling or is there any reason why this one has you so miffed?
I’m not saying this in a patronising way, I have comparable if not more venom for certain things in the sport, this just seems relatively minor?
This. +1.
Messi is not particularly known for running, is he? I am not football is clean, but it was some of his teammates at Pep’s Barcelona who overrun every opposition back in their day – the likes of Mr Hernandez Creus. (The best midfielder modern football produced and the second best player I ever saw.)
Association football never fought doping that passionately, anyway.
Well, certain tennis players are also subject to not that ordinary doping controls. Vondrousova, former Wimbledon winner, if I remember correctly, was banned for declining to let a WADA officer into her apartment at about 8pm (in Czechia, 8pm is usually considered night rather than evening), i.e. outside of the standard window. She claimed she was scared to let an unknown person in (who she claims refused to produce any ID). She based her defence on being afraid of an attack similar to attack on Petra Kvitova (another generic Czech Wimbledon winner), but she was found guilty and banned for four years.
@Bubble Wrap I have no problem with doping tests at 2am/5am if there is a genuine and compelling reason for them at that time – and there is every possibility that could be the case – but not if the special reason was Pog and Jonas were 1 and 2 in the race. That has not happened before and sets a dangerous precedent – as you mentioned it potentially impacts the race.
The problem is the ITA are not going to explain their reasoning. If the riders had tested positive we’d know by now and the ITA is hardly going to clear matters up now with the context around it and knowing the results were negative for whatever they thought they were testing for.
So probably best to move on until or if something concrete comes out. And to be clear, I’m just as uncomfortable as the rest about this episode.
“and there is every possibility that could be the case” – I mean generally not specifically in this issue.
We need to be aware that some doping products have an extremely short testing window if the person taking it is going to test positive (like only a few hours). This means an effective testing programme needs to occasionally test during the night if it is going to deter or catch people doping. Cycling takes anti-doping much more seriously than other sports, which is why the doping test happened in cycling and not tennis.
Reasons will not be fully disclosed, and there won’t be full disclosure about how anti-doping is being run since this just helps dopers evade the controls. Again, if we want a clean sport, then this is something we need to support.
I happen to believe the leading riders are not doping and the sport is mostly clean. The tests help me have confidence this is true. Both Plugge and Gianetti have stated, while it is not ideal to be tested in the middle of the night, they understand why the testing regime exists, and the support the efforts of the ITA in testing the competitors.
If you are going to get angry, then you should be angry with the previous generation who have made the testing regime necessary.
Pogi let up. Torito was less than remco so fair play, even though pogi was pulling for him. Optics of pogi winning on the day vinny went home is a huge consideration. It was sporting by pogi.
@JB. And you know that how?
Look at the replay. It was clear as day to me. Pogi soft pedaled the last 20 meters. The guy just lost his only competitor. This sport is honorable in so many ways, I think its only the right thing to do to not win on that day and it happened to have a convenient excuse. Call me crazy…
We’ve heard “no gifts” but there’s always a way to gift.
@JB. A gift is gift regardless of how it is wrapped no? And implying it was a gift is a tad insulting to RE. As for the soft pedalling, who knows. People like to see what aligns with and reinforces the perception they have of someone.
I would love to think that Pog declined the win to “honour” JV but he truly is the only one who knows.
I wonder if you would be as sensitive to Remco’s feelings if he got woken up in the middle of the night by the ITA? From your other posts it seems your sympathy would disappear like fog on a sunny day. Which strikes me as somewhat bizarre.
For most of the rest of us we can tell the difference between a Pogacar who simply attacks and doesn’t look back and one who is constantly looking over his shoulder to see where Del Toro is whilst going on the radio all the way up the climb.
I thought Pogacar could have dropped Remco and Del Toro at any point on the climb. He tried to gift Del Toro the stage. But I thought he was genuinely beaten by Reemco in the sprint (Remco, in his interview, also thought this). I was surprised many thought Pogi allowed Remco to win, but looking back I can see it is possible. I guess none of us can really know.
Does Seixas have a chance here? He has been riding well on the climbs and has shown he can TT.
I’m not as knowledgeable as the people on here so I’m just curious, and I like a dark horse.
Hard to see the win but he should do something respectable.
Seixas is definitely the one I’m watching today.
His TT performances have been excellent as far as I can see so far so it’s a great barometer of his capabilities over three weeks, I foresee a top10 and that can only spell good things for the years to come. Today and Alpe DH have always felt like the true tests for him this year if he could navigate the first two weeks.
As for Pog, I expect him to win or be very close, his TT skills are the most up and down of his many talents, but I have noticed when riders decline their TT’s are usually the first thing to go so it will be interesting even if we won’t be able to draw any real conclusions as it seems sometimes he cares, sometimes he doesn’t against the clock. My instinct is that we’re likely to be waiting multiple years for the decline so today is probably just another stage and possible win to tick off on the way cycling immortality. *(small aside: I was happy to hear Geraint on his podcast likewise be a bit miffed by seeing the yellow jersey coaching a teammate to a podium bid Sunday rather than give us a show! I get why but hope it’s not all we see for the next week)
Good luck Remco, it can only be a good thing for the sport for him to win today and take 2nd overall because there’s a current reading of the cycling atm that it revolves entirely around Pog and Seixas (in a TDF sense, with maybe just Pog/MVDP/WVA at the races which suit them) which isn’t a good thing, so hopefully Remco, Jonas, Ayuso and a few others can show signs of promise to at least give the illusion we’re not all just waiting for Seixas to come of age and take it to Pog.
Imagine being Seixas right now?
He must know the numbers he has to hit and the mountain he has to climb, he’s likely too young to truly comprehend the task, but it’s maybe quite fitting that the Odyssey is out this week as it’s a truly epic undertaking he faces in the most classical sense of the word!!!! It’s very hard to imagine that if Seixas reaches it (and Pog doesn’t suffer misfortune), that we’re on the cusp of one of the greatest face offs in cycling history.
Fingers crossed we see it.
@MicW If you mean podium yes. If you mean yellow no.
Probably fair that only Remco and Pog got chainrings, but this is one of those days when the winner is less interesting than some of the other finishers. How much time does Remco put into his rivals? Does Del Toro have an especially good performance, or does he predictably slide back down the standings a bit? Does Ayuso have a great day and jump back into the mix? Finally, Decathlon have shown that their TT setup is a good one; where is Seixas at the end of the day? Can’t wait to find out.
Indeed. Took me reading 15 or so comments to arrive at the first mention of Seixas on this page. Refreshing 😀
Yes, lots to look out for and discover. Del Toro’s relative weakness seems to be the TT but this is short, the climb will give him something and he’s in great form.
I’m inclined to think Ganna will do a little better than expected and Pogacar will do a little worse. The former has been able to manage his effort and the latter has expended a lot, even if he is head and shoulders above the rest. Unlike the climbing stages the ITT doesn’t offer Pogacar the immediacy of competition and real time return on investment in seeing the gaps increase behind him.
Van der Poel a complete wild card pick for an unexpected top five to remind us all of his own incredible talent.
Van der Poel did a great TT in the Tour de Suisse but has been saying he won’t go for it today. Plus the long climb isn’t for him.
His dad Adri said in the post race interview after the stage win this year that people always underestimate Mathieu’s climbing abilities. Not the real steep stuff, but even 6-7% climbs is “just pushing a wattage” and he can do that. He can climb pretty well if he wants to, but usually he doesn’t want to. According to VdP senior.
Allowing remco Take along or tack along? Has the tour ever climbed the road alongside the dranse? I think the tour de femmes used it last year? I’d describe it as an ugly road to begin but as you get out the ravine it becomes more pleasant. Looking forward to seeing lac leman frame the shots later
I think Pogi tickled zone 4 on Sunday and had to ease back to not drop Del Toro, Remco would have heard the chatter between the UAE guys and his confidence will have buoyed – gave him the % push he needed to not get dropped. A wins a win, can’t deny that.
Expect he’ll win again today, unless it rains late on and the GC guys have to take it a bit easier.
Difficult to know how Remco will fare. If everyone was completely fresh then Remco would win by minutes. But in week 3 of a grand tour it is completely different since the ability to recover becomes more important than pure ability.
Both Del Toro and Seixas (and the other GC-riders who aren’t Pog) look like they have good-days and bad-days (not unexpected in young riders). This makes the race interesting in the last week since we can expect some “snakes-and-ladders” as riders move up and down the rankings in position 2-7 of the GC.
Can’t lie.
I’m lying awake on sleepless nights atm imagining what a true Seixas vs Pogacar TDF face off might bring. Imagine the roads if Seixas is in yellow? Imagine the final stage if they’re close? It really feels like it would be the greatest Tour of all time?
I might learn toe and finger yoga so I can cross as many as possible in the hope it comes true. Seixas needs to make every endeavour to build a settled team and top level domestique backup in the coming years.
If you were Seixas who would you be looking to as your key lieutenant. I’d try and move mountains to get Almeida. The intel, the quality, the reliability…
@oldDAVE I think you’re getting a bit fixated with Seixas here. He’s still a long way off Pog, a very long way.
gimme a break Kev? second time you policed my comments this week!
(I’d place a laughing emoji here if I could, I’m not that serious!)
I was just looking to inject a bit of fun to draw us away from the testing issues which have taken over today comments…
There’s absolutely no reason you should keep up to date with my posts, in fact I’ll freely admit you’d be wasting your life if you did! …but I did mention yesterday or the day before that I think there’s a significant chance Seixas may not ever reach Pog’s level before Pog retires. So I’m not getting carried away in the slightest, just enjoying imagining the opposite as I’m sure Seixas’ closest team must be planning for.
If I were them I’d be looking at highly experienced riders to come as team captains and help in a Kwiatowski-mould on the lower slopes as they enter their final years (I wonder if Egan Bernal might be an option?) and big guys for the flat and TTT’s (similar to UAE picking up Politt, although they already have Bissenger), then some top level climbers if Felix Gall or Riccitello aren’t at the required level, that’s where I’d look to an Almeida if they have the money. I guess other’s in that mould would be Jordan Jegat, Thyman Arensman, Jay Vine, Derek Gee if they decide to give up personal ambitions.
oldDave.
I think we are likely 3 years from a proper duel between a declining Pogacar and Seixas coming into his prime. There is plenty of time for Decathalon to build a climbing team and we won’t know who would make a good climbing domestique at that time. Almeida, likely, will be slightly past his best by then, and probably happy to ride for Pogacar.
Decathlon should be hiring Ben O’Connor, Laurens De Plus and Pavel Sivakov for next year, that’s a good start.
oh blimey, sorry, I’ll give up, was only a bit of fun imagining.
I should’ve added as I wrote a length a few days back that I’m highly aware this is a while away and possibly may not even happen – was just having a ‘what if’ moment as is fun every now and again.
(you’re also right and I do actually agree, was just being a bit silly for a change!)
oldDave:
I think this is a case where nuance is difficult to convey on a forum. Yes, you are right that it is fun to think of a future duel, should it happen. Lets hope it does.
Any chance of them changing bikes during the TT?
Don’t think so as the long climb is very steady, riders can stay in an aero position all the way up; and on the way down it’s mostly fast and flowing. There could be some concessions for weight, eg lighter wheels.
Hope this is going to be my only point on the antidoping tests: the history of this sport compared to other pro sports is about tests and raids being politically driven, often even altered (not that you mostly need the latter, of course).
This is not just Verbrugge’s story, it’s about our very same years, surely the late 10s and beginning of 20s. The most recent truce and tolerance policy towards big teams (towards big money), and broadly extended essentially to the whole WT, is just a mild version of the above. For the sake of athletes’ health I hope that other policies are also in place to calm down things a little (minor positivities, focussed raids etc.).
Cycling has not got more doping than others, and never had, probably even some less. Only, as it’s a political matter, it goes wildly mediatic (you wouldn’t do it otherwise).
This time it has gone mediatic, that was probably the primary intention, and that’s what worries me, as a potential sign of things to come.
I have no explanation: maybe some teams received informal warnings but didn’t accept to slow down a bit, maybe they did but institutions don’t think so, maybe other aspects are factoring in.
To me, the technicalities look frankly short from being meaningful. Anyone among the testers discovering the possibility of microdosing right now? Whatever!
OK, my final comment on the night-time tests.
The rules state that for a night time test, there must be “serious and consistent suspicions” that the specific riders have violated anti-doping rules or could do so. must also be a “risk of loss of evidence.” The test can only happen if both requirements are satisfied, and needs to be authorized by a judge.
So, according to the rules, there does not have to be any actual suggestion a specific rider is doping. The line “or could do so” justifies testing both Pogacar and Vingegaard given the widespread chatter about their performance. Certainly, many people believe there is at least a small possibility they might be doping. [Note: I think they are probably clean].
The “risk of loss of evidence” is very important here. While for some doping products, the athlete will test postive for many weeks after taking the product, for other products the rider needs to be tested within a few hours if they are going to test positive. The 11pm-6am non-testing window would allow them to dope at 11pm and be clean at 6am. Thus to avoid the “risk of loss of evidence” they need to be tested in the middle of the night.
Yep, all makes perfect sense – I’m definitely looking forward to five years down the line where I bet we all struggle to remember what this was all about! Wouldn’t be surprised if this has become a common place occurrence by then also and we all shrug our shoulders, maybe some rules are brought in that a single rider can only endure night tests during a stage race and maybe twice a year maximum, that’ll keep everyone on their toes without impeding the racing too much.
It seems like the agencies actually choose a pretty good time to do this if it were more about a warning… as if it was necessary before an important stage (as riders wouldn’t maybe do it before a less important one) but they didn’t want to impede a riders rest before either the first climbing stage, nor before the pecking order had been established, nor before a huge stage like the AlpeDH one… then they actually choose well and just got unlucky that Jonas crashed?
Maybe we can praise the testers for a change?
If the fear is micro-dosing and this is one of their few weapons against it, then this was all about sending a message without disrupting the racing – it’s a tough call but as far as I can see they choose pretty well?
If TP & JV hadn’t spoken about being woken up, we wouldn’t have known
If JV hadn’t crashed, it would be far less of an issue.
If my grandmother had had wheels, she’d have been a bike.
We all know the protocols now and until we get some hard facts there’s not a lot to be gained from going over the same old ground.
Since UAE are apparently trying to win the team classification I wonder whether, contrary to GC teams usually only having their leader(s) really go for it in ITTs, they’ll be getting at least one rider on top of Pogacar & Del Toro to go for it?