The 14 July stage in France, the culmination of a long weekend and Round 2 of the breakaway championships.
La Route d’Ussel: Stage 9 was best stage of the Tour so far. The best day’s racing this year? It’s too early to rate, as if traces of adrenalin still remain so comparisons against the thrill of Sanremo and the redemption of Paris-Roubaix can wait. But unlike many a spring classic this was a race that was on the boil from start to finish and had sport on several levels.
The stage was shortened, a concession to the authorities with the Corrèze department placed on a “red” weather alert and the Tour could not be seen to carry on unchanged, even if riders were saying a shorter stage just made it more intense and so harder in the heat.
There was no immediate attack at KM0, presumably because everyone knew Lidl-Trek wanted to contain things until the intermediate sprint which came early. Mads Pedersen duly won this. Once this was passed the attacks came, wave after wave and Van der Poel and Tom Pidcock among them. If Pidcock has a saddle sore than standing on the pedals to attack is one way to ease things.
Only no move would stick until 65km of racing when a 15 rider group was away and Pidcock jumped across to make it like a passenger running after a train as it pulled out of the station. A big group but by now the yellow jersey group behind them was only about 30 riders with plenty of riders having paid for their attacks.
It was here the first surprise came with UAE chasing. We’d later get Rashōmon-style explanations, to paraphrase from the essential L’Equipe du Tour podcast Adam Yates said they wanted to ride so Pogačar could win, Tim Wellens said they wanted to do it for Del Toro, while Tadej Pogačar said words to the effect that “some teams came to ask to ask for help as they wanted to win the stage” while team manager Mauro Gianetti’s answer was along the lines of “we just wanted to control things”. All can be true especially at different times in the race, and they’re interested in the team prize too and did not want to let Lidl-Trek gain time as the German team had two riders up ahead.
Almost as soon as the break had formed the hardest climb of the day began, the Suc-au-May. After Quinn Simmons and Tobias Halland Johannesen lead over the top, they were joined by Pidcock, Van der Poel, Derek Gee-West, Lennert Van Eetvelt, Alex Baudin and Pablo Castrillo and so the break of 16 was down to eight.
With UAE chasing and keeping the gap often around a minute, there was little room for the leaders to try tactics. Van der Poel was the heavyset rider likely to win in a sprint but everyone was taking strong turns and so could not attack on the climbs to sap the bulky Dutchman.
Mont Bessou is mainly a big main road but the race used a side road that visits a tower built so that hikers can reach the 977m high mountain and then climb up to beyond a thousand metres. This side road suddenly became a berg for Van der Poel who stormed up, his shoulders seeming to block the dappling sunlight amid the forest. This shrunk the group down to four: Van der Poel, Baudin, Halland Johannesen and Pidcock, the latter only just as he had problems with his gears and unclipped a foot to kick his rear mech, something not in the SRAM manual.
Van der Poel did look very likely to win from here but by now the breakaway was only thirty to forty seconds clears because Netcompany-Ineos had been chasing. According to a not-broadcast race radio excerpt, the team car had got them chasing to defend Egan Bernal’s virtual 10th place on GC under threat from Halland Johannesen and Pidcock but later the kept this going to give Filippo Ganna a chance in the uphill sprint to the line (the latter almost proves the former as Bernal was rested and not pulling like Foss or Vauquelin).
If this looked a little sad from Ineos, the Lidl-Trek tactical zenith on the Stage to Foix seemed to find its nadir as suddenly they had no riders in the break for the win and yet now not enough power to help bring the breakaway back for Pedersen who was still in the yellow jersey group, with Ayuso and Skjelmose not taking visible turns. Another team with problems was RedBull with nobody else in the group to help Evenepoel and Lipowitz.
In the final of four sprint Van der Poel was invincible, especially with Pidcock’s gear shifting problems saw him finish third. Ganna led home the rest at just six seconds. All those who said “I’m not watching the Tour any more” after Pogačar won in Gèdre missed some good racing and there’s more to come.
Week One Review
Yes, Pogačar is firmly in control. Having mentioned Kurowsawa’s Rashōmon above, some more cinema. The ideal Tour sees the protagonists clash before a final showdown, much like the classic action movie. This time it’s like watching a caper where the lead character has taken the loot early in the running time and it’s all about what he does next (NB cinema, no allegations of crime here, just cinema references).
Plenty of subplots to watch. Pogačar looks in control but can Vingegaard deliver second place, quite probably is the answer but we’ll see if the Giro win comes with a price in the third week.
So what about the third spot on the podium? This looks very open, Del Toro a contender but what can the others do. At some point Red Bull are going to have to pick between Evenepoel and Lipowitz or if not, see the selection made on the road as they can’t settle for a result beyond this given the spending they’re making. Juan Ayuso should be happy where he is today as he has a claim on the podium too. Lenny Martinez is still 8th and less than a minute of third overall so what choices does he make, still aim for GC or have to lose time to go for the polka dots?
Plus there’s Paul Seixas. Third over the Tourmalet, he’s now racing longer than he ever has before. It’s more than anecdotal as the rest day is an unknown thing for him and how his body reacts. Is he someone who benefits from doing nothing, from a gentle coffee ride, or from doing a solid workout of up two hours with some measured efforts to better start the next day. He needs to know because of Stage 10 is going to be raced hard, the day after the next rest day is the time trial in Evian. So far the pressure is ok and he avoided any more by not bothering with a rest day press conference.
Mads Pedersen has a good grip on the green jersey and only two remaining 70-pointer sprint stages to come this week. Meanwhile the mountains competition awaits the mountains to liven up. The upcoming stage offers plenty of climbs including two first category climbs with 10 points to the winner.
It’s been hot and will stay hot until the end of this week but cooling, and then the heatwave could break. There’s rightly been a lot of talk about coping or adjusting to these conditions. But notable that the regular safety topic has – so far, fingers crossed – not been a live issue with few crashes.
Finally here’s the prize money rankings for the first week. As ever nobody races for this money, plus it’s divided up and shared so a rider who wins €N during the race probably only sees 5-6% of the sum. Instead it’s a good proxy for visibility and activity in the race.
The Route: 166km and 3,800m of vertical gain. It’s back to Le Lioran for the third time in recent years after 2016 and 2024. This stage is backloaded for the climbing, the early part features a lot of smaller départmentale roads which are often not flat and hard going.
The mid-stage climbs of the Col de la Griffoul – only used once before, in 1975 – and Prat-de-Bouc are more alpine in feel with open countryside and longer efforts. It’s from here things begin to suit the climbers more.
The Puy Mary is climbed from the east and it is longer but more gentle, often 4-5% and only tightening up to 8-10% for the final 1.5km. (last time it was up the Col de Neronne, about 4km at 9%, then across to the Puy Mary 5km at 8% including the wall-like upper part that saw Pogačar go on the attack, fade and get caught by Vingegaard).
The Finish
The cropped graphic comes from 2024 so ignore the x-axis KM markings but it shows the run to the finish with a graphic not available this time around.
The Col du Pertus is listed as 4.4km at 7.9% which would be hard if it was like this. Instead it’s much steeper for most of the way. The profile says it starts with 7% but the 10-12% slopes arrive immediately and it stays this way for the next two kilometres with only a brief flat section in between before rising up all the way to the top. It’s harder than expected and the place where teams can ratchet up the pace to eliminate or test rivals. The descent is in two parts, the first part is easy and gentle, then there’s a bump uphill and then the second part is steeper and more dangerous part with some sharp turns, the kind where it’s easy to overcook things.
The Col de Font de Cère begins on the big Route Nationale and then with 6km to go turns onto a small road which climbs to the KoM point among the chalets and ski slopes above Le Lioran on a steady road. The descent is much smaller and has some bumps and tight bends on the way down. Once in the ski resort it picks up the main road which gradually bends to the finish. The last 600m rise at 6-7%.
The Contenders: Tadej Pogačar (UAE) got beaten here last time, does he want to prove a point? It’s asking a lot to get his team to work all day to control things, especially as – to stress it again – this year the Tour goes up the gentle side of the Puy Mary, the final hour isn’t as hard. If he doesn’t wake up wanting to win he can change his mind if the raging battle for the breakaway means no move gets away for a long time and his team could join in the chase too. In short he’s a contender but unlikely.
Normally this should be for the breakaway. Richard Carapaz (EF) is well-down on GC at 15 minutes and suited, such is the level at the Tour that stage wins go to riders who have won stages before, and again we should see more of his team too. Ben Healy’s not proving the easy pick and has been suffering in the heat.
Tom Pidcock (Pinarello-Q36.5) is really suited but 13th on GC and so liable to being chased by Netcompany-Ineos; the British team could try to get Egan Bernal in the break but he could be chased and so on.
Quinn Simmons (Lidl-Trek) has it hard with the climbing here but is a contender. Raul Garcia Pierna (Movistar) not a big winner.
Mathieu van der Poel (Alpecin-PremierTech) will probably find this too hilly but he made the last stage look flat.
Longer shots are Lennert Van Eetvelt (Lotto-Intermarché), Marc Hirschi (Tudor), Jordan Jegat (TotalEnergies) and Valentin Paret-Peintre (Soudal-Quicktep). There could be another five but the list is getting long.
Finally if Romain Grégoire (Groupama-FDJ) could win on 14 July – often called “Bastille day” in English, but not in France – in his tricolore jersey he would be the first since Raymond Delisle in 1969 to do this. Normally he’d be suited to this course but he’s been fried by the heat so we’ll see if the rest day helped or not.
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Carapaz, Pidcock |
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Simmons, Van Eetvelt, Paret-Peintre, Pogačar, Del Toro |
Weather: sunny and 32°C. A 10km/h breeze from the SW.
TV: KM0 is at 1.25pm and the finish is forecast for 5.15pm CEST.
“a little sad from Ineos” could also be used to describe the last few years for them. Not seeing that Brailsford “magic” just yet.
Spot on! I think they gave up on GC.
They’re in a difficult position strategically, a big budget and reportedly generous wage payer but no obvious leader at the moment, having paid a lot for Onley. From my reading of things they’re one of the teams thinking of a serious offer for Seixas rather than the “sure, we’d like to have him on our team”. But they have also signed Spanish junior Benjam Noval already.
Tactically we’ll see what they do in the coming 10 stages but it’s not easy. Vauquelin’s been ill so not in the best shape, Bernal, Foss and Arensman are better suited to the high mountains so steady so far. The TT is Ganna’s big day but the course has a long climb where his best bet is to rest as much as possible now to have an advantage.
Obviously an element is the riders who are available but they basically won GTs with TTers who lost weight to become climbers, particularly Wiggins and Thomas, but then seemed to pivot away from that towards climbers who couldn’t TT. I suppose it worked with Bernal.
Having said that of their previous Tour winners only Froome would come close to challenging Pogacar or Vingegaard and I suspect he might have spent a lot of time on the third step if he was riding in this era.
@Michael B Like Vinny now, I don’t think prime Froome (or prime Sky) would be a match for the recent version of Pog. He’d certainly have been in the mix in the Vinny Tour years though.
Looking at the last six years, I have to disagree. Froome would – is my guess – have been thoroughly beaten by every version of Pog and Vingo.
Froome himself has said he’d be beaten in recent days, but he’s modest in personality too. But it’s hard to compare eras, the higher pace and calorie consumption has upended a lot of racing. It wasn’t long ago Froome and his peers were training and racing with low carb diets and ketones, now things have gone from famine to feast.
In terms of their rather sad chase, I was wondering whether there was extra motivation for Ineos as they were chasing down Pidcock, who I assume isn’t on great terms with his ex-team? Saying that, it would have been fun if Ganna was able to do a Dwars door Vlaanderen and launch a late chase and overwhelm the lead group in the finish.
Pogacar and Vingegaard have the top two podium spots, so I could agree Ineos gave up in the third spot, but who would be their rider anyway.
They don’t have one—nowhere near it. Part of Netcompany’s budget is set aside to pursue a suitable candidate.
We’ll see what TotalEnergies do. The company’s boss is interested in cycling and personally willing to intervene, ie to up the funding if the right chance comes along; this is just what happened when TotalEnergies team were trying to sign Alaphilippe.
I agree – the money fight is going to be interesting.
The problem is that there are very few top options available. Pog and IDT probably aren’t going anywhere, Decathlon (I assume) will do whatever it takes to keep Seixas, Vingo is firmly with VLAB (though I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that UNO-X dropped a hint), and Lipo will most likely stay at Bora. Maybe Remco is up for a journeyman shift?
@Ryan
It may seem closed, but do you really think it’s truly settled if the prize is big enough? I doubt it…
They have been at a loss since the guy they bet on to take over from Froome – Bernal – didn’t work out as they hoped and then suffered a life-changing crash which has left him a shadow of the rider he could have been. Of course, he was never Pogacar anyway so its likely they just backed the wrong guy. If they really do have the money everyone says they have then they simply have to bet on Seixas, don’t they?
Didn’t Bernal suffer a life-changing crash and then not work out as they hoped…?
He won a Tour – sort of – and then a Giro. But by then Pog had already arrived and was clearly the more complete rider. If Bernal was meant to be the new Froome – a multiple Tour winner and the clear standout grand tour rider – it was already by then clear this was not the case.
Oh, it was well clear since it had become apparent that Skineos wasn’t enjoying the same political status. Bernal had more quality than Froome but never could win the Froomish way.
UAE will have nothing to do for the next two stages following this one, so I can’t see them sitting this one out. Add to that the fact that everyone is already defending their top 10s, and it looks like another very difficult time trying to make the break in the first place. If anything, I could see Pog letting McNulty or Wellens have their own shot, but either way I see UAE playing a major role in how it plays out. It would be interesting to see if Jorgenson would get chased down at all costs, as it has been suggested that he’s on a “black list.” Lots of subplots, but probably no real repercussions for the race, other than maybe a temporary holder of the polka dots and likely a slight consolidation of the green jersey for Pedersen. Of course, I would be thrilled to be wrong!
Why is Jorgenson on a black list?
It’s probably not real, but he definitely made some enemies in last year’s Tour. Allegedly blocked riders in the feed zone, etc. But I read earlier that he’s not going to ride for himself at all, so it might be a moot point.
Thanks. The peloton must be a pretty political place!
Riders can carry grudges and a group of riders can buy into these but sometimes internet chat can get ahead of this.
Jorgenson’s form and riding is hard to read at the moment.
The local newspaper claims that ASO were paid 30,000 euros for the stage to be held here (if anyone is interested).
Not knowing the article, it’s not the normal tariff. But it could be that the finish pays €N, the department €X, the start €Y etc and this covers the hosting fee. We’re increasingly seeing the departments have their own stages, eg today is branded 100% Cantal, rather than one host at each end.
“The best day’s racing this year?”… Ah la francophilie…!
😀
A big plus for me as a MvdP victory, but…
World Championship for Most Absurd Team Tactics, with a great podium for UAE, Lidl and Ineos, pick the podium step as you please. Only disappointment, Movistar not reclaiming their usual spot among the elite in this specific discipline.
Little competition for MvdP in the break – yes, he still played it out perfectly to manage the global race dynamics both within the break and against the chase, yet the sensation is that on the one hand nobody was really at his level on such a course in the break, on the other hand the group could have got them all, had they played a minimally decent strategy.
So, well, some tension but not too much suspense, emotion but not too much action (not so may attacks because it was constant survival mode), a great winner but a clumsy show from many…
Without getting to the Monuments, which were far above, many a Giro stage ticked more quality boxes in terms of intensity but also canny racing, or sheer quantity of race events (Bettiol, Segaert, Valgren, Kuss etc.).
Some brief moments at the Giro rather than sport for hours. Take Bettiol’s win, the break needed time to form but not as long, then it was clear and away for the day, you could go for a long lunch and then come back to watch the finish. Also the GC had nothing to do with the stage etc. Enjoyable but just not as intense. And with a more art house cast too, Josh Kench et al.
Josh Kench shone but the final quartet of Bettiol, Leknessund, Valgren and Stuyven was pretty much high quality, especially considering that Pidcock isn’t at his best yet.
It’s true that in the 190 kms of the Bettiol stage you had a stable part in-between after a crazy fight to form the break (more extreme than at the TDF), but the finale was immensely better than Sunday’s.
And in the other three stages I named you had more compelling action all day long, and also with attacks in the mix, not “just” some chasing hard, those on front trying to pull away. Plus, some GC factor, of course. Sometimes even more than Bernal and Tobias fighting for 10th place.
However, this sort of stages are better evaluated when they sum up across a GT, rather than as a single day experience. This TDF had been pretty disappointing but Sunday was surely nice and there are more occasions to do even better coming up, starting with today.
I don’t think you can compare the intensity, gabriele. Here it hasn’t stopped for a minute, the escape group was constantly changing, until the end we didn’t know if the peloton would catch them, the motivation of Ineos was adding some suspense and we had two multi world champions in the break, plus a TdF top-5. Pidcock seemed so strong I wasn’t so sure of MvdP victory. I saw the Bettiol stage, I found it pretty good but far less crazy. Well, maybe we both have our well-known bias, but really apart from MSR and Roubaix I didn’t witness so much intensity in another race in the year.
But apart from this this Tour is not exceptional, I agree with you. The backload tactic completely failed, and I really fear that the last week will be pretty boring. Let’s hope that the middle one is funnier. Couldn’t see the stage today, but it didn’t seem so good.
Very hard to compare anything due to the heat, too, plus quite different a course, and so on, but that Bettiol stage was ridden finally averaging some *49 km/h* I think, so the intensity was pretty much there. +2/4 km/h when compared to this TDF’s… *flat* stages.
It’s not like people ride that fast for the mere pleasure of feeling the wind on their cheeks.
(Did you watch the Bettiol stage from the beginning?)
Same for the Valgren stage. Over 200 km and well over 3.000 m. of total altitude gain. Slightly over 43 km/h as the average speed.
Well over 45 km/h for the Marche “walls” stage, nearly so for the Novi Ligure one crossing the Appennine. Etc.
The hilly or middle mountain stages were hugely competitive at the Giro, probably among the best it generally had to offer.
Anyway, to be clear, I liked much the Ussel stage, only it’s a stretch too far to deem it “best racing of the year”, both for its intrinsic limits *and* for the relative abundance of such stages this season (in other races, at least for now).
Can a stage be great because of -ahem- “questionable” tactics? I was thinking maybe not, but then I remembered Finestre ’25. That said, maybe stage 9 was too dumb to be great?
It sure can, but hard to label it “best of”. The Giro 25 was the best GT *also* thanks to that day, but had it been a race like 23 only with the Finestre finale, I’d have had more doubts. Plus, Finestre was about the conundrum faced by two leaders and their character clash, here it was more about teams not racing in a consistent way without much of a compelling trade-off.
But, yes, in this case, too, it was better to watch thanks to some perplexing decisions. Yet I like it best when a strategy is a plus being good, as in P-R (or several above named Giro stages), rather than when it adds up trough multiple mistakes.
I would say the predictability of MvdP’s win also prevented greatness being achieved. I’m not sure anyone was in any doubt once he got in the break, certainly not when he’d pushed on up that climb and he was being chased down by Lidl riders who had just been dropped.
Spot on!
The magnificient seven (of sorts) are glued together at the top of the GC and this stage doesn’t look hard enough to split them. If they manage to catch the breakaway then del Toro might be the fastest finisher.
1st week was relatively crash free due to combination of stages 1-3 being selective and gc teams not contesting the sprints.
A pattern that should be followed from now on. Especially ttt.
Rashōmon-style explanations – brilliant 🙂
The thing about the days after a rest day is who simply doesn’t switch on and goes missing? I assume we all remember Tejay van Garderen who was a seeming specialist at this. That man did not like the day after a rest day.
If Pogacar wants to win this stage, he will. It is that simple.
Sidenote: No offense, but comparing stage 9 to this years Roubaix is an awful take. The prolonged suspense and what was at stake are nowhere near comparable.
It’s a take that can only be explained by the host clear Pog fatigue, even Tourmalet stage this year was better imo, but that is highly debatable, what isn’t is the Sanremo and Roubaix and probably other since this was an banal transition stage with bad tatics.
Anton, there is no absolute scale for comparison of different races. It is as subjective topic as it can be. You value more prolonged suspense or maybe you are biased by the stake of the “monument”, but for the author more compeling might be short, explosive and full of action stage of the Tour. Both opinions are fine, except calling other opinion awful.
I can gladly take reasoned criticism… but did enjoy the stage for its relentless action and changing styles, and admitted that the adrenalin of the day was still there. Paris-Roubaix got a good write up here (https://inrng.com/2026/04/paris-roubaix-2026-review/) and the maybe we’ll review things in cold light at the end of the season.
Feel free to be verbose when you get to that project. What a year so far, in all respects!
Happy Bastille Day !
A day for the commentators to say, every French rider wants to win today, but I think it might be tough. I can see Pogacar helping his teammate Del Toro to get some time back on Vingegaard as Pogacar seems to be, unlike the Bastille, unassailable at the moment.
Carapaz as an outsider bet if the break takes it.
Regarding UAE chasing on Sunday…a theory I haven’t heard kicked around yet was that they just needed to stretch the legs a bit. With 2 sleepy sprint stages before hand they could have theoretically had 4 days of very low effort…if today wasn’t on the hit list they might even be looking at 6 days straight of noodling.
Modern racing demands that you stay “on” throughout the duration of the race, or you will suffer when the screws get turned
Nobody is cruising along though, the speeds are relatively high and heat is taking its toll. Although UAE can exploit this to fry their rivals who may suffer more. But one thing to note is if UAE want to work, other teams are directly or indirectly helping them out at times when they might to better to watch.
‘Mads Pedersen has a good grip on the green jersey’
Will this lead to another swathe of “fans” claiming they won’t continue watching?
I like Mads. I like his team. And the green jersey is not a given yet.
Three distinctly different points compared to the GC.
I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head Michael. All the “its boring!” talk depends on whether you like the rider or not. That’s literally all it is.
That’s probably the crux of it for most cycling fans. While I don’t have any strong feelings toward Pog himself, I really can’t stand his team. And that, for me at least, is the main point.
If you perceived it as “inadvertently,” I must not have pushed my point strongly enough. I can’t wait for the Slovenian era to come to an end.
Of all dominant, era defining riders… I struggle to see another at least closely as un-annoying as Pogacar. He is a fighter, a racer, he takes risks, rides with panache.
He is hardly as unsavoury as any Hinault or Merckx of your choice.
@Fra
It’s all a matter of perception and taste. I can’t stand Pogacar and even less the team he is riding for. You have a different taste and that’s perfectly ok.
Spectators were audibly booing Pogacar today. I don’t think that’s a one-off.
Michael, as you say, it’s hard to dispute with taste. I kind of see your point, but still find it hard to understand.
I am not that particularly fond of Pogacar and surely not a fan of the team / certain team staff. Still, at least for my eyes, Pogacar is a rare sport star of such magnitude and longevity – rare by remaining relatively easy going. That’s one point.
The other is … Do you remember the style of racing pre-Pogacar? I liked Froome, but admit his victories were mostly dull. Then came Roglic, copying Sky’s approach, making it even more dull – instead of trading blows a kilometre or two from the top of the mountain, Roglic was winning by sprinting for bonus seconds.
Then Pogacar came and with him, we got long range raids (the reason I like Froome, actually – due to his famous Finestre attack), we got a rider able to win on almost every kind of terrain going at least slightly uphill… We got a great rivalry, even, the kind of Coppi and Bartali or Anquetil and Poulidor – two top riders, generational talents, fighting for the top spot for five years in the row.
I simply struggle to get the hate towards Pogacar. I dislike his team, dislike his choice of marketing partnerships, but on the sporting field, he is pretty close to the ideal star, I’d say.
Perhaps it’s the western attitude towards a small central European country?
And my last point… Pogacar mowing stages after stages. Who ever blamed Cavendish for doing the same? Is there really a difference between dominating the terribly dull sprint stages and dominating other stages? No, there isn’t, other than we are used to dominant sprinters. Still, other riders have the same right to get as many stages as they can.
@Fra
I get your points and respect your views. The short version (I’ll be driving to France today, so a more thorough version may come later):
What really bothers me about UAE/Pog is the change we’ve seen in his Tours from ’23 to ’24 (and likely ’25 and ’26). Pog 1 was a phenomenal rider, but he’d still have a bad day or two in France, just like every other top rider.
But from ’24 onward, things changed. There were no real highs or lows, no bad days, no calls over the radio for teammates to get him through a tough patch across the 21 stages. Instead, he started setting ascent records almost effortlessly—often by one, two, or even three minutes.
I get why a 19- to 21-year-old rider can progress quickly, but Pog made the leap from Pog 1 to Pog 2 at 26, after years of already being an exceptional rider.
Now, this could very well be completely legit, and I have zero evidence to suggest otherwise, and will not speculate about it. It’s probably just that the UAE has the hugh piles of resources, competencies, money, and time to develop their riders to ever higher levels.
But it makes it no less creepy. And the more I see Pog riding, the less I like it.
@Michael Eisner, few real bad days at the 22-23 TDFs for Vingo… or during this same season, for now, with a full GT and several short stage races already done and dusted.
The reduction of race days makes it easier to forget the mediocre days, and being two steps above the rest makes it less noticeable when you step down one of those.
@Lars
Your snarky point aside, it’s a meh from me. Despite all the hype surrounding the three sub-jerseys, I’ve never really felt the excitement, close or not. So I’ll likely continue reading more on Inrng, that watching the GC horror show.
It’s a Carapaz day. Got to be.
I’ve never really warmed to Carapaz, but if he has to pick a day this is the one.
With Carapaz, I find it sad to see a legitimate GT winner reduced to stage hunting from the beginning of a GT. I know why he has to do this (small team/need for some success for sponsors, Pog/JV dominance). It’s just sad for him and the sport in a way.
On the contrary, I think Carapaz has done a great job of keeping himself relevant among the aliens currently dominating gc. He came oh-so-close to winning the ‘25 Giro when the aliens weren’t there, and has livened up the race in other races without having any chance of winning. Much better than always staying in the top 5-10 but staying relatively invisible.
It can depend on the rider and team, what they want, the hidden incentives of whether to earn UCI points or do other things. Here EF want this kind of visibility and action but it is expensive.
The silver lining is that the fight for the 3rd spot is becoming more and more open….
Absolutely! I wouldn’t have called the LIDL-pari being in contention by now. And despite his comeback today, RE seems to be prone to crack on the longer ascents.
Actually, I think its a fight for 2nd spot the way Jonas trailed in today. He looks vulnerable and certainly less than a sure 2nd place.
And then you see Remco and think the same about him for third because with Le Markstein, the Col de Solaison and the final two Alpe d’Huez stages to come I find it hard to believe Remco isn’t going to struggle.
If you are Ayuso, Seixas or Lipowitz you need to ask yourself how high your ambition goes it seems to me.
I agree with that. I didn’t catch much of the last hour, but it seemed like Vingo made a big push to reel Pog in and ended up wearing himself out. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Giro takes its toll on him in the final 10–12 days. In that case, the battle for 2nd will be close, and I’d change my prediction from a 5-minute gap between Pog and Vingo to a 10-minute gap between Pog and 2nd place..
Vingo has three days of rest coming up, so we’ll see how he recuperates. He would be delusional to pay any attention to what Pog is doing, so unless he wants to go on a suicide mission he will be focused on consolidating second. My prediction is that he will do just that on the Markstein and Solaison stages. If he doesn’t, I wouldn’t expect him to end up on the podium at all. The gc is truly done and dusted now (of course unless there’s some terrible misfortune), so I’m just hoping that we still have reason to care about the podium after the second rest day. It would be fascinating if Remco stays in the hunt going into the TT.
You could take second place—Vingegaard is clearly feeling the pressure.
Lipo will take 2nd place, I’m certain of it. 🙂 My German heart knows it, and he’ll be about 15 minutes behind the Slovenian, but still in 2nd. You read it here first.
Looking at PCS, the real battle is between Remco and Lipo, although it’s very interesting to see Ayuso just hanging out under the radar and we still don’t know Seixas’s limits. But for me the biggest gc question for the next week will be how much time Remco bleeds between now and the TT. I’m guessing that Lipo will do everything he can to drop him on stages 14 and 15, both of which look like Remco killers.
Totally agreed, and we could just say “the real battle is between Remco and Lipo” without even checking GC ^___^
i keep looking at Pog in this and think he’s on fast forward mode. other pods have noted he just doesn’t look that interested. Perhaps he’s thinking he want to get the magic 5 and put in some stage win for the ages then focus on new challenges for a season. If you’re the dominant rider of an era you can focus on the tour and rack up the jerseys but only stand out riders can do what Pog is capable of and win pretty much any race. if he had 7 tours and no Paris Roubaix or Olympics then the quip would be he didn’t win those so somehow less. It will be more fun, perhaps, for him to let the talent mature (Seixas, Del Toro others) and come back and have a tougher fight
Maybe he’ll put it in cruise control now and go for the Vuelta?
I wish we could’ve know the correct times during the Pog attack.
The gap seemed steady around a minute and then a touch under to Carapaz during the climb but Pog seemed to close around fifty five seconds to him in a single kilometre leaving the chasers by 30secs.
Annoyingly the times changed close to the top and the gap to the chasers went to ten seconds leaving you unsure exactly how much Pog closed or didn’t?
I thought it was a spectacular attack to remember but now I’ve no real clue how good it was? If he only closed around 25 secs and Jonas pegged him at 10 secs it’s less memorable.
I still think it’s totally bizarre we don’t have w/kg on screen for the big riders at times like these, it would be so fun to see and truly understand what’s going on. I get the idea of not overloading new fans with jargon but I also think a fairly sizeable fanbase now understand both w/kg and heart rate and it’s infuriating we aren’t treated to a sport that moves with the times and gives fans better insight to enjoy it more.
Personally I think every rider should have glasses with a camera and mic and all data should be open.
I have enjoyed cycling for over 40 years without ever needing to know watts per kilo, heart rate, blood sugar levels, VO2 max or any other number. Cycling is not about these things. You want to know what is happening? Watch the race. What’s bizarre is that anyone would need such info to enjoy it.
Yes let’s see the numbers! The more data the better. It’s bizarre that fans would want less information about a favorite sport as technology improves.
Nothing wrong with having the numbers for those that need them, as long as they don’t clutter up the screen to the detriment of viewing the race. Personally, I’m with Anon above, but each to his own.
+1 Shredgar
@Anonymous – assume this isn’t the funny Anonymous we enjoy regularly as the tone is pretty different.
I acknowledge my comment was a little too forthright, maybe infuriating was a bit knee jerk and the wrong word, apologies – but I do think it’s a good life lesson not to expect or demand others to enjoy things in the way you do and to try and see beyond your own perspective in how others might look to find enjoyment/fun in life?
You sound like a bit of a curmudgeon.
I’m glad you’ve been able to enjoy cycling for 40 years without needing to know w/kg etc, that’s great and if me asking for further stats were to rob you of the sport you know and love then I would understand your view, but were we to get a slightly more informed coverage, you would actually still get the exact same experience and people like me would just get our enjoyment raised slightly, so what’s the problem in that? Surely that’s something to celebrate because we might add some extra fun for fellow fans of the sport?
Instead you just want to tell others what’s the correct way to enjoy cycling when you surely know some people love it for so many different reasons already: the landscapes, the sprints, the one days etc etc – the more ways to enjoy the better?
And your point that cycling is not about VO2 max etc is very funny as cycling is very much about these things! You might want to believe there’s some mysticism involved and it’s all in the bike handling/racing senses, but cycling is 90% w/kg, VO2 etc and maybe 10% racing nous. Pog is winning because he is superior physiologically not because of superior tactics, so it’s fair that fans would want to understand some of the metrics of that superiority.
This is just one of those classic ‘real fan’ comments where you enjoy this sport in the ‘correct way’ and expect everyone else to follow suit or they ‘don’t really get it’…
Are you sure that what you say would really add anything? Anything in terms of the information you crave for, at least, as the watching experience, IMHO, wouldn’t be enhanced at all.
For example, w/kg uphill is essentially quite proportional to actual climbing speed, which you’re frequently being reported onscreen realtime as for absolute terms and which you can see with your naked eye as for relative terms. The latter being what matters, at the end of the day.
But there’s much more to say, for example that instant watts (or w/kg FWIW) onscreen would be as unstable as instant speed, which already is often confusing, precisely due to its sudden variations.
Watch any graph of that to grasp a broad idea.
They could maybe give you a normalised average of sort for, say, every last 100 m., but it would be moderately informative.
The actual meaning of w/kg is about how long can you average a given value, so it’s material for ex post analysis, not for a live broadcast. Just as climbing speed. You can work well with a climbing time, or sector by sector splits, or pace per km, that’s interesting. Whereas knowing as we’re now being told “how fast are they going exactly now” is funny but doesn’t help much further understanding. And, at least, instant speed is someway intuitive.
People who look very interested in cycling, commenting on a niche blog, still struggle to interpret correctly a mere climbing time, imagine w/kg…
Then, the key point. These are sensitive data which would allow a team to discover a lot about their rivals, whereas normally a very interesting part of cycling concerns hiding your hand. Which is why, by the way, it’s so complicated to get trustworthy information about riders’ weight. Climbing time and real weight can tell a lot (conversely, nobody would be willing to share w/kg in order to allow you to exctract weight for further analysis on data you wouldn’t share).
If we’re interested in full transparency, maybe even as a way to discover the weak points of the strongest athletes (that could help weaker ones with a solid sport science department in their team to receive some advantage), you’d need to ask for heart rate, too, as you indeed hint at.
It would be ideal to get the whole files shared, I agree with you, and I’d appreciate that. Of course not live.
But, know what?, teams don’t even want to have a GPS on cyclists to be checked by the UCI. Imagine the sort of data like heart rate or w/kg. Velon already provides interesting materials of the kind they’re willing to share, and that’s the sort of things you can expect in a sport where teams now have the upper hand. Fine, indeed, entertaining, but miles away from any full disclosure.
I don’t always agree with Gabriele but this is spot on in response to @oldDAVE.
@anonymous. Must agree, knowing all of their stats doesn’t increase my watching pleasure on little bit. I still enjoying seeing the the time displayed on the chalk board and yea i do ride rim brakes, steel and tubes.
+1 for less, not more tech in the races. oldDave should be permanently banned for suggesting that riders should be forced to wear Meta glasses.
People watch for a lot of different reasons. Plenty famously only want to see the landscapes. For those that watch the racing some want sport. Some enjoy the bike tech.
As Gabriele says, and as posted here before, only a small % of cyclists have a power meter/know about a power so it’s a very niche audience. It’s one reason it’s not displayed on screen at the Tour because the watching public wouldn’t know much. Personally I find it useless when it’s on screen during the Giro as they show the absolute number, eg 432W, 311W and this is meaningless without context, ie weight; and even if they had some dial graphic instead to display the number 4.1W/kg in green, 7.2W/g as red etc it would be lacking contest again without accounting for time, eg how long have they held this. The real insight is studying the power data after and telling a story, but this is usually kept private and the story is inevitably “winning cyclist pushed big watts to win”.
Ha – I’m not surprised I opened some feelings here!
I do think the biggest weakness of the INRNG comments section is that we’re all diehard fans and generally the truest fans of any sport, (or even musicians, artists etc etc) can be the biggest strength and the biggest weakness of what they support.
Those who love what they know and refuse to think through change even if it’s about rejecting it but then suggesting a happy medium – just end up holding back what they love, and being flat out told to stick with what you have ie ‘just watch the road’, ‘what’s bizarre is that anyone would need such info’ etc is just says more to a slightly ungenerous spirit and unwillingness to accept we can share this sport and enjoy it in all our different ways.
There was a time where we didn’t have hill %’s, speed, average speed and all these things on screen and they’ve all been pleasant additions – in time we will have more and they will fail/succeed in different ways but it’s important to keep trying to bring our sport to fans in new ways and this is clearly one, as is something completely different like the Tour De Femmes.
My position will always be that if you don’t take control of inevitable change, it will change in a way you least want it too, like state-sponsored teams etc.
I dislike Meta as much as everyone and The Other Craig’s comment made me laugh – but camera’s on bikes are going to happen at some point whether it’s glasses or not, and when they will do hopefully it’ll be in a way that’s not as difficult to access as Velon, which I’m sure most of us forget to check for a bit of additional content after the stages? I guess I also think this is just a general dislike of camera glasses as they’ve been tarnished by meta and news stories of inappropriate use, but we regularly see comments here suggesting more drone footage, so suggesting better in peloton footage isn’t that revolutionary.
I also agree with INRNG that pure Watts on screen at the Giro are near meaningless, and Gabriele makes a good point that W/KG are more nuanced than simply putting on screen as is – but that doesn’t mean we just give up? Part of the joy is watching things develop till they’re useful and working, that’s a story in itself. Cycling already has a high bar to entry: needing to explain to new fans what the differences are between body types, surfaces etc etc and more recently gravel… every development brings it’s own story and reason to engage – so seeing how new information is used/interpreted etc by commentators, fans and the riders themselves (as some will be unexpected) will be another interesting aspect of an already interesting sport. As strava has been and many other recent changes.
INRNG justifiably mentions these numbers are more useful after the fact when combined with other data but again, that’s now? Even in the recent past this has been rapidly changing, with UAE mentioning their use of AI to compile and digest multiple training programmes in seconds whereas it used to take weeks, this kind of insight can be brought to the fans and it will be interesting just to see how they might go about it whether it succeeds or fails. We got to try surely? Plus technology is so far advanced now anyone who doesn’t want it can simply turn off on their screen? So why the big hullabaloo??
I disgree though with INRNG that only a small % of those watching the tour now understand the W/KG terminology – zwift has 1million subscribers, spinning classes a likely far more widely partcipated in, garmin sell 20m headsets a year, GCN alone has 3.6m subscribers and I assume everyone who comments here had GCN+ or has engaged with some kind of media that goes deep on the carb era, heat training and all these things… the coming era of fans are far better informed than those who’ve passed (as we’re consistently told by teams that teen riders live the lifestyle far earlier than before) so we should be thinking about these new fans and older fans (like me!) who have a completely different level of knowledge to what came before – because I suspect they are far more typical of pro cycling fanbase than they were even five years ago, so even if this point were said on the comments previously, things are changing rapidly.
The big issue is overcoming the sports, athletes etc reluctance/indifference to sharing more data and which is understandable in alls its many ways, but a sport that wanted to engage more with its fans would find a way. Cycling is just happy to bumble along as the underfunded, niche sport it’s always been and always will be, where old school fans ‘like it or lump it’ mentality is the dominant force.
@oldDAVE
On-bike cameras are as old as Cipollini, at least. RAI implemented them. The Giro gives you watts. None was or has been a game changer. But feel assured that both ASO and RCS are tracking closely tech to see if it can add up. Some of your points are good, but you’re being too dismissive about what some people say here when they look conservative but are mirroring underlying aspects of the question. I love gradients (and I’m very interested in watts etc.) but what the TDF displays now in terms of % to speed is pretty useless, currently. I don’t know if it’s delay, lack of data smoothing or whatever, but it leaves me frustrated *precisely* as I understand it and check it against other sources or real life measurements. I’d rather have this improved before other void data being put on screen – void as in “lacking appropriate elaboration”, not as in “intrinsically meaningless”.
sorry Gabriele, I should have noted this wasn’t directed at you.
I enjoyed your comment and to me it’s just the start, we should be able to have fun with these chats and engaging in a conversation where we develop each others arguments, rather than getting knocked off at the first hurdle? My reply to you is that we shouldn’t stop try just because something takes a bit more thought than simply plastering it onscreen, there’s value in searching for how things might be implemented.
And yes re on-bike cameras, aware they are old but it’s similar to your Velon comment – we’ve not got there yet, Velon is too removed from the broadcast to be easily accessible, while whatever cameras we’ve had on bikes are just not good enough yet, so hopefully things like cameras in glasses might finally be that cheap enough step for a penny pinching sport to take us inside the peloton… something I’ve been desperate for as long as I’ve been a fan…
I’m definitely hopeful and glad to hear they’re investigating by the powers that but… they are extremely late on getting us even radio access to the peloton, which should have been standard decades ago. We’re so far behind the curve of every aspect of our sport, and yet you’ll have people moan about how great GCN+ was here, along with all the innovation it brought… yet then dismiss all other innovation out of hand?
It makes no sense, GCN even in it’s non+ era has always impressed me with how they’ve grown, ie the green screen studio’s they developed to mimic the big budget spaces of the BBC, and more recently the mini-drone they use of solo rides to film more than just on bike footage. They constantly innovate and are trying to find new ways to engage in the sport, as are start-up teams with their youtube journeys etc. It’s the sport itself that’s dragging its heels (for understandable reasons) but I feel like as fans it’s fair to demand more.
I don’t think I’m being too dismissive of the occassional conservative spirit in this comment section – your reply is thoughtful and well informed but elsewhere change any armchair fans might suggest here is very likely to get shot down with curt ‘no way’ despite there being a post from INRNG on struggling teams today, and the sport so clearly limping from year to year in the shadow of not only more popular sports but better run sports that serve their participants and fans far better than ours.
And I think to be a downer on something you can simply ignore, like an occasional on screen graphic, is exceptionally dreary and the point of view of someone just ticking off the years before curtain closes and the coffin beckons.
I’d rather see slope % when it’s a cat 2,1, or HC climb, and the speed.
Then I could compare to my own pitiful performance!
@oldDAVE I disagree. Just watch what happens on the road – that makes the figures irrelevant.
I just think this is completely wrong.
My original point was I could not see what was happening with Pog’s attack.
The camera’s could not show how far he was between Carapaz and Jonas because of the tree cover and the numbers displayed confused my understanding.
It’s just not true that we are always able to see what’s happening on the road?
Over the years we’ve had the benefits of first one camera, then two cameras, then replays, then on screen data that all helps our understanding and I’m simply in favour of that continuing.
My pet peeve is the fact that timings of different groups have gotten worse over the years. I remember giro stages 15 years ago where the time difference between the break and the chasing peloton would swing lightly in escapees favor when they entered a roundabout, such was the precision.
Fast forward to today and the time differences accelerate wildly without any explanation, technological progress be damned.
Without first solving timing accuracy problem, there is no point in introducing other measurements.
In addition, I would say 95% of new data introduced is pure novelty and it doesn’t add anything to experience (diehard cycling fan, so maybe I’m a bit biased) – estimated W/kg would be interesting, but that would need much more precise positioning and timing accuracies.
Totally agreed. Something extremely easy would be to have fixed measurements points – obviously on a few chosen climbs only – like every 500 m., or at variable distance, depending on the specific altimetry.
As we get in TTs but way thicker, with authomatic data treatment and onscreen info on a small side column motorsport style. It would be “last 60-90 seconds” rather than realtime, of course, but it would be informative and reliable.
Colour code to show who’s getting relatively faster or slower could also help.
this is interesting, thank you both ZigaK and Gabriele
I am watching on Sky Sports in NZ and it may have been stage 9 when Nicholas Roche mentioned a rider falling 34 times in two years. If true, who is the rider?
I think it was Jay Vine
How about Geraint Thomas? He was the butt of jokes for this but hard to know who falls often and who is noticed for falling often. In a way being able to fall 34 times is no bad thing as it implied the rider must have got up and been able to race again and again.
“..fall 34 times is no bad thing as it implied …”
Indeed, it seems a form of statistical “Survivor Bias”.
Check out the diagram of an airplane fighter with numerous bullet holes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
I doubt he was the one being named, but one of the most tragic case I recall, in terms of repeated and not random events rather than fatality, is Mauricio Soler. Luckily, he went away from cycling still being able to walk and with relatively minor neurological damage. One of the stories which pushed hard my conscience of cycling watcher.